Is Jesus a copy of pagan gods part 3
Age 12 and 30
One of the arguments that Acharya S makes in her attempt to prove that the story of Jesus is nothing more than a copy of the story of Horus is that of the usage of the specific ages 12 and 30 in relation to both.
In addition to all of the correlations we have previously seen, another comparison between the Egyptian and Christian religions concerns significant ages of Horus that correspond to those of Jesus, for example, 12 and 30. In the gospel story it is claimed that, at the age of 12, Jesus wowed the temple elders with his precocious knowledge and wisdom. (Lk 2:42-46) Another age significant to Christ is “about 30 years,” when he supposedly was baptized and started his ministry (Lk 3:22-23), dying within a year to three afterwards, depending on which conflicting gospel account one chooses to believe. Like those of Jesus, these same “ages” of 12 and 30 in the life of Horus—recalling, of course, that we are dealing with myths, not real people who actually had lives—correspond to the differences between the child and adult Horuses, naturally, but they also possess both ritual and astrotheological meaning as well.
Christ in Egypt page 210
In other words, Acharya S is going to take pieces of information from different myths , stories and anything else that she can use and amalgamate any bits that she feels fits the argument she is trying to create, i.e the connection between these 2 ages and the “lives” of Jesus and Horus.
In this part of her argument in her book Christ in Egypt, Acharya S cites Gerald Massey’s book Ancient Egypt the light of the world.
“Horus was the son of Seb, his father on earth. Jesus is the son of Joseph, the father on earth. Horus was with his mother the Virgin until twelve years old, when he transformed into the beloved son of God as the only-begotten of the father in heaven. Jesus remained with his mother the Virgin up to the age of twelve years, when he left her to be about his father’s business. From twelve to thirty years of age there is no record in the life of Horus. From twelve to thirty years of age there is no record in the life of Jesus. Horus at thirty years of age became adult in his baptism by Anup. Jesus at thirty years of age was made a man of in his baptism by John the Baptist.” Gerald Massey, Ancient Egypt (787)
Christ in Egypt page 210
Gerald Massey is of course a secondary source. Using secondary sources as factual information is something that Acharya S does through the book. When it comes to secondary sources we must ascertain whether the information presented is in fact factual.
However, when we look at Gerald Masseys book on page 787 (509 in my copy) there are no sources cited in support for the claims that are made. So we must ask, where do we find this information that Horus was with his mother until 12 years old and then transformed into the beloved son of God? There is no such information found in the ancient writings of the Egyptians. There is no significance to this age in the ancient Egyptian myths of Horus. Acharya cites Massey as her evidence for this claim…but Massey cites no-one and nothing as his evidence for the claim. So Acharya S cites an unsourced claim as if it were fact.
Neither Massey nor Acharya S gives us the primary evidence for the claim and Acharya’s evidence for the claim is the claim itself whether she was aware of that or not. It must also be noted that Joseph was not the father of Jesus, he was born of the virgin Mary. Something that Acharya actually uses in another argument connecting the two stories together. While we do have a very short narrative about Jesus at the age of 12 in the Gospel of Luke, it should not be ignored that Jesus is not only with Mary until the age of 12. Rather Mary is still a significant part of the narrative after Jesus has been baptised and she was at the cross at his crucifixion.
Jesus also did not become a man at his baptism by John the Baptist.
Jesus was a Jew, which means that he became a “man” at the age of 13 not 30. Nothing in the story of Jesus gives the impression that this was when Jesus was considered a man.
Actually the age 30 is significant in the life of Jesus because this was the age that priests started their ministry.
Numbers 4:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, 2 Take the sum of the sons of Kohath from among the sons of Levi, after their families, by the house of their fathers, 3 From thirty years old and upward even until fifty years old, all that enter into the host, to do the work in the tabernacle of the congregation.
It is odd that in the authorized (and sanitized) version of the gospel tale—claimed to be a biography of Jesus Christ—no mention is made of his early childhood or of his life between the ages of 12 and 30, when he allegedly began his ministry. Many attempts have been made to pad out this biography, with rumours of Christ’s adolescence and early adulthood spent in India, Egypt or Great Britain, and with tales of his childhood recorded in apocryphal texts such as the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, which depicts a nasty and vicious boy Jesus who strikes children dead and causes people to go blind.[970] By the standards of a historian, however, none of these efforts at creating a biography has proved scientifically successful or satisfying. Needless to say, it is beyond peculiar that while no officially sanctioned biography of these “early years” of Jesus exists, in its stead emerges a dreadful account of a cruel, young magician.
Page 210
It is true that many attempts have been made to “pad out” the early years of Jesus. None of which are canonical stories. In fact most are Gnostic stories that have no biblical relevance whatsoever. These stories about the early life of Jesus are irrelevant to the historical story of Jesus as none of them are historical stories of the early life of Jesus. “By the standards of a historian, however, none of these efforts at creating a biography has proved scientifically successful or satisfying”….by the standards of almost all Christians as well.
Needless to say, it is beyond peculiar that while no officially sanctioned biography of these “early years” of Jesus exists.
Actually it is not at all surprising that we have very little information in regards to the earlier years of Jesus. They are not relevant to the story. We get very little information about most people portrayed in the Bible beyond that which is specifically relevant to the narrative. We are told of the conception and birth of John the Baptist but the next we hear about him he is baptising in the river Jordan. In the story of Moses we are told about his birth and “adoption” by Pharaoh’s daughter as found in Exodus 2:1-10, however, in verse 11 Moses is fully grown and is depicted as killing an Egyptian who was smiting one of the Hebrews.
In any event, the lack of an early background for Jesus tends to verify the notion that the original Christ was not a historical personage but a mythical Gnostic concept, as Docetic Gnosticism claimed that, rather than having been born, Jesus emerged fully blown out of the ethers as an adult phantasm
Page 212
Well that could be true but it would require totally ignoring the 2 accounts of the birth of Jesus that are found directly in the Bible in the gospels of Matthew and Luke. The biblical narrative regarding Jesus is that he was born of a woman. In fact Paul states:
Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Jesus having come in the flesh is fundamental to the Christian belief and the teaching of the Bible
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
These facts add to the mythical air surrounding the story of Jesus Christ, and we are left with the impression that the tale as found in the New Testament and elsewhere ranks as largely if not entirely fictional, based mainly on the myths of other, preceding cultures from around the Mediterranean and beyond. Indeed, as part of this widespread mythology—which includes a number of mysteries—emerge the notable ages of 12 and 30.
Page 212
We have already seen in parts 1 and 2 this is incorrect and the manipulation that is required in order to even start to make any connection.
The first Horus was the child, who always remained a child. In Egypt the boy or girl wore the Horus-lock of childhood until twelve years of age. Thus childhood ended about the twelfth year. But although adultship was then entered upon by the Sherau [“adult son”], and the transformation of the boy into manhood began, the full adultship was not attained until thirty years of age…. The god up to twelve years was Horus the son of Isis, the mother’s child. The virile Horus, the adult of thirty years, was representative of the Fatherhood, and this Horus is the anointed son of Osiris. These two characters of Horus the child and Horus the adult of thirty years are reproduced in the two phases to which the life of Jesus is limited in the gospels
Geral Massey Historical Jesus page 57
The first Horus was actually considered Horus the elder. This was the Egyptian Horus.
While the Horus lock was worn by the young as a sign of youth and that they were an heir of Osiris, there simply is no evidence for the claim that this lock was worn until the age of 12. Neither is there any historical evidence that after a child reached 12 and became an adult that they would not reach full adulthood until the age of 30.
“These two characters of Horus the child and Horus the adult of thirty years are reproduced in the two phases to which the life of Jesus is limited in the gospels”
In order for this statement to be true, we would have to yet again totally ignore the birth narrative of Jesus contained within the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.
In Egypt the boy or girl wore the Horus-lock of childhood until 12 years of age. Thus childhood ended about the twelfth year. But although adultship was then entered upon by the youth, and the transformation of the boy into manhood began, the full adultship was not attained until 30 years of age. The man of 30 years was the typical adult. The age of adultship was 30 years, as it was in Rome under Lex Pappia. The homme fait is the man whose years are triaded by tens, and who is Khemt. As with the man, so it is with the God; and the second Horus, the same God in his second character, is the Khemt or Khem-Horus, the typical adult of 30 years. The God up to twelve years was Horus, the child of Isis, the mother’s child, the weakling. The virile Horus (the sun in its vernal strength), the adult of 30 years, was representative of the Fatherhood, and this Horus is the anointed son of Osiris. These two characters of Horus the child, and Horus the adult of 30 years, are reproduced in the only two phases of the life of Jesus in the Gospels. John furnishes no historic data for the time when the Word was incarnated and became flesh; nor for the childhood of Jesus; nor for the transformation into the Messiah. But Luke tells us that the child of twelve years was the wonderful youth, and that he increased in wisdom and stature. This is the length of years assigned to Horus the child; and this phase of the child-Christ’s life is followed by the baptism and anointing, the descent of the pubescent spirit with the consecration of the Messiah in Jordan, when Jesus “began to be about 30 years of age.
Gerald Massey Historical Jesus
The gospels talk about Jesus as a baby the reason why 30 is important
In BD 18, the speaker discusses the “Great Hoeing in Tattu,” to which Renouf appends a note referring to a little child with the sidelock who is supposed to “scatter the seed in the field of Osiris.”[983] Per the previous discussion, the upper age limit of Horus in this passage would be 12, at which point it could be said he is “working in his Father’s house,” as was claimed of Jesus as well when he was 12.
Christ in Egypt page 213
This claim is based on circular reasoning and assumption. Firstly it would have to be accepted that the sidlock was only worn up to the age of 12 despite there being no evidence for this. Secondly it would then have to be asserted that this child was in fact at the upper age limit of 12, despite there being nothing in the text of plate 18 that would support this. Thirdly, even if it could be said the child was “working in his Father’s house,” it does not in any way mean that this was said. This is nothing but forcing the evidence to fit the claim.
Acharya then appeals to a story found on a Papyrus that is held in the British Museum.
“In the Egyptian story of Khamuas/Khamois found on Papyrus DCIV of the British Museum appears an interesting tale about Sa-Asar, Si-Osiris or Senosiris—the “son of Osiris”—who “grew rapidly in wisdom and knowledge of magic.” The tale continues: “When Si-Osiris was twelve years old he was wiser than the wisest of the scribes.”[984] This story includes fantastical elements—such as a visit to the underworld—that indicate it is not historical but may well revolve around Horus, son of Osiris. Thus, in Egypt we find a similar tale as in the gospel about the “son of God” who is 12 years old and is precocious in intelligence and knowledge, besting the elders and scribes.[985] “
Christ in Egypt page 213
However, this Papyrus which contains the story does not come from ancient Egypt. We find nothing of the sort in the writings of the ancient Egyptians. In fact, the Papyrus is dated to 46-47AD, at the very earliest. This is after Jesus had been born, died and resurrected.
Acharya S is fully aware of this as she puts this information in the footnotes. But argues that this pre dates the Gospel of Luke and so Luke must have copied the story.
The earliest date for papyrus DCIV is 46-47 AD/CE, as it is written on the back of official documents created at that time. Since there is absolutely no evidence for the existence at that time of the gospel of Luke, in which this story concerning Christ is contained—in fact there is no real scientific evidence for the existence of Luke’s gospel as we have it until the end of the second century—if the pertinent story regarding Senosiris also dates to that early time, it would serve as clear indication that the gospel story was borrowed from it and not the other way around
Christ in Egypt Footnotes page 213
While it is likely true that the Gospel of Luke had not yet been written at this time, although I have argued for an early date of the written Gospel, the story of Jesus was very clearly already being told by his followers and thus we do not need a written Gospel of Luke to demonstrate that the story of Jesus was already known before the Papyrus was produced and so disproving that the story of Jesus at 12 as found in the gospel of Luke had to be based on the story as found in the papyrus.
In her book Acharya S then moves to try and associate these two numbers, 12 and 30, as having an astrotheological meaning.
In addition to these facts of Egyptian age-related traditions exist astrotheological meanings for the 12 and 30. In the first place, Horus was commonly viewed as the rising sun, during which time, it could be said, “He dwelt on earth as mortal Horus in the house of Seb (earth) until he was twelve years of age.”
Christ in Egypt page 213
Yet again we get the assertion “it could be said”, “He dwelt on earth as mortal Horus in the house of Seb (earth) until he was twelve years of age.”
This does not in any way mean that it was said or was believed. The Egyptians did not base the story of Horus on astrotheology. There is no Egyptian age related tradition about Horus being 12 years old at 12 noon, neither did anyone claim that Horus dwelt in his earthly fathers house until the age of 12.
Furthermore, Acharya S is taking 12 noon as being a reference to the “age” 12. Of course even if we were to take this assertion as fact, the sun does not rise at 12 midnight so we would not get 12 years just an age 12. Its literally fitting the evidence to the belief.
In the solar mythos, the “age” of 12 refers to the sun at high noon, the twelfth hour of the day, when the “God Sun” is doing his “heavenly father’s work” in the “temple” or “tabernacle” of the “most high.”
Christ in Egypt page 214
Of course, there is no evidence that anybody actually said any of these things in ancient Egypt or at all. All that has been done here is biblical language has been used and forced into the claim to make it seem like the claim has supporting evidence.
Notice the attempted play on words in this assertion, God sun. Obviously this is meant to try and link to God’s son, Jesus.
This play on words only works in English.
This does not work in Hebrew or Greek, the written languages of the OT and the NT.
This in Hebrew would be Bene elohim (son of God) and shemesh elohim (Sun of God). In the Greek it would be be huios Theos (son of God) and hélios Theos (son of God)
That play on words would not work on those that were using these languages and so is null and void. Hebrew and Greek are the original languages that the Bible was written in.
Herodotus goes on to state that the Egyptians “first brought into use the names of the twelve gods, which the Greeks adopted from them,” possibly associating these gods with the months. Moreover, when Osiris dies at 28—around the same age legend holds Jesus begins his ministry, not too long after which he too dies violently—the number represents the days in a lunation, the end of which signals the death of the soli-lunar god. Again, the “30” also constitutes the number of days in a month. In either event, this number would signify the movement of the sun into another month or sign, representing a sort of death and rebirth, much like the death and resurrection of Jesus around the age of 30. As Massey says, “Horus as the man of thirty years is initiated in the final mystery of the resurrection. So was it with the gnostic Jesus.”
Christ in Egypt page 215
“Moreover, when Osiris dies at 28—around the same age legend holds Jesus begins his ministry.”
As already shown the Bible depicts Jesus as having started his ministry at the age of 30 as per the Mosaic law. It is dishonest to connect these 2 ages together simply because they are “around the same age” and assert that one, namely Jesus, is copying the other, as in Osiris, because of a similarity in age or around the same age.
“A sort of solar death and rebirth”. This really is stretching the assertion to its fullest. Jesus is said to have died at 33 not 30 so yet again this strained and forced connection fails on the basis of what is actually recorded not what is assumed or asserted. Here Acharya is doing just what she did as we saw in part one. Taking approximates and forcing them to mean something that they do not. 28 does not equal 30.
““Horus as the man of thirty years is initiated in the final mystery of the resurrection.”
So which is it? Was Horus baptised at 30 or this age is associated with his resurrection?
“Like Jesus, not only is Osiris associated with the “age” of “about 30,” but so too is Horus in a very concrete, enduring and blatant fashion, in addition to obvious solar mythology and astrotheology. In this regard, in ancient Egypt there existed a celebration called the “Sed festival,” which typically was supposed to take place every 30 years, yet which evidently also had been celebrated in 12-year intervals, once again demonstrating a 12/30 formula”
Christ in Egypt Page 215
As I stated in part one of this study, similarities do not necessitate dependency. Just because we see a festival that occurs after 30 years in Egyptian history, it simply does not necessitate that this number in relation to the age Jesus started his ministry must have utlised the number 30 based on the Egyptian Sed festival. This must be proved and the similarity of thirty years in reference to both does not in any way prove it. The similarity is the claim, not the evidence of the claim.
What was the sed festival?
The sed festival was an Egyptian festival celebrating the 30th year of the reign of the Pharaoh for the rejuvenation of his strength to continue his rule. This festival would then take place every 3-4 years after.
“The Sed festival (ḥb-sd, conventional pronunciation /sɛd/; also known as Heb Sed or Feast of the Tail) was an ancient Egyptian ceremony that celebrated the continued rule of a pharaoh. The name is taken from the name of an Egyptian wolf god, one of whose names was Wepwawet or Sed.[1] The less-formal feast name, the Feast of the Tail, is derived from the name of the animal’s tail that typically was attached to the back of the pharaoh’s garment in the early periods of Egyptian history. This tail might have been the vestige of a previous ceremonial robe made out of a complete animal skin.[2]
The ancient festival might, perhaps, have been instituted to replace a ritual of murdering a pharaoh who was unable to continue to rule effectively because of age or condition.[3] Eventually, Sed festivals were jubilees celebrated after a ruler had held the throne for thirty years and then every three to four years after that. They primarily were held to rejuvenate the pharaoh’s strength and stamina while still sitting on the throne, celebrating the continued success of the pharaoh. Sed festivals implied elaborate temple rituals and included processions, offerings, and such acts of religious devotion as the ceremonial raising of a djed, the base or sacrum of a bovine spine, a phallic symbol representing the strength, “potency and duration of the pharaoh’s rule”.[4]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sed_festival
While we may have a connection to the thirtieth year, there is nothing to connect the festival with the age of the start of the ministry of Jesus which actually is connected to the age of a priest as already shown.
Walking on water
In the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and John we find the story of Jesus walking on water. I shall just give the story as told in the Gospel of Matthew.
Matthew 14:22 And straightway Jesus constrained his disciples to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the multitudes away. 23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone. 24 But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary. 25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea. 26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. 27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.28And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. 29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. 31And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? 32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. 33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
The god who controls or commands the water represents part of a mythical category, as laid out by Dr. Wendy Cotter, in a chapter entitled, “Gods and Heroes Who Control Wind and Sea.”[1373] We have already seen that in the Egyptian religion water was highly revered, with several important rituals, spells and incantations pertaining to it, including baptism, as well as myths and legends, such as Osiris’s role as the life-giving Nile and as water in general. In the Book of the Dead emerges a repeated emphasis on controlling water. In BD 62, for example, the deceased, who is Re or Osiris, pleads to have “command of the water,”[1374] saying, “May I be granted power over the waters…”
Christ in Egypt page 293
As Budge says of BD 57, “The recital of this Chapter gave the deceased ‘dominion over the water,’” referring to the Nile
Christ in Egypt page 294
water,’” referring to the Nile.[1377] In this chapter/spell 57, in fact, appears an indication that the Egyptians possessed in their mythology the ancient motif of walking on water, after a fashion. In his comparison of the Egyptian and Christian depictions of water walking, Massey writes: Walking on the Waters. The scene of the miracles of the loaves and fishes is followed by an attempt to take Jesus by force, but he withdrew himself; and this is succeeded by the miracle of his walking on the waters and conquering the winds and waves. So in the Ritual. Chapter 57 is that of the “Breath prevailing over the Water in Hades.” The speaker, having to cross over, says; “—O Hapi! let the Osiris, prevail over the waters, like as the Osiris prevailed against the taking by stealth the night of the great struggle. Let the Osiris pass by the great one who dwells in the place of the inundation.”
Christ in Egypt page 294
“The recital of this Chapter gave the deceased “dominion” over the water,” that is, enabled him to obtain a full and constant supply from HĀp-ur, “the Great “Nile,” and air from every quarter of the earth. By it also he gained the power to breathe freely in Mendes or Busiris, and a settled abode in the celestial Ånnu (Heliopolis), where he had his house. The plan of the house was made by the goddess”
https://erenow.net/ancient/the-egyptian-book-of-the-dead/3.php
It wasn’t that the deceased would be able to control water but have access to it.
At PT 247:261a-b, according to Faulkner and Mercer, Horus is called “Lord of the Storm” or “Lord of the Tempest.”[1383] James Allen (W 158) avers that it is Seth who is the “storm-lord” in the same utterance/ recitation.[1384] Even so, when Horus slays Seth, he could then be said to have “prevailed over the storm-lord”; in other words, Horus calmed the storm.
Christ in Egypt page 294
261: It is Horus to whom order was given to do (this) for his father.
To the lord of the storm, wrath is forbidden when he carries you.
It is he who will carry Atum”
Pyramid text utterance 247:261
Acharya is literally just making sayings up as if this was something that was said.
Literally ripping bits of information from one source and smashing it together with another creating a story and meanings that was told and known by no one.
She has basically grabbed hold of any source that she could find that could possibly be used that has anything resembling the story of Jesus in order to connect Horus with Jesus.
I hope that people can see the disingenuousness of her work.
She then quotes Massey
The Lord appears on the water in the morning watch, the “fourth watch of the night,” that is, the πρωι [proï] or dawning (cf. Mark xiii. 35), at which time the Sun-God begins his march or his “walking,” as it is termed, upon the waters of the Nun [the primordial abyss]. It is said to the God who walks this water at sunrise, “Thou art the only one since thy coming forth upon the Nun.” And here we may discover the prototype of the Gospel version. The deceased addresses Ra at his coming forth to walk the water and pleads, like Peter, that he may do so likewise. “Grant,” he says, “that I too may be able to walk (the water) as thou walkest (on the Nun) without making any halt.”[1394]
Christ in Egypt page 295
Found on page 830/831 Ancient Egypt the light of the world.
In this paragraph, Massey is evidently discussing an Egyptian text called the “Book of Hades,” as translated by Dr. Lefébure and as found in Records of the Past. In that book, Re appears in his boat/bark, above those who are “submerged.” Next, the story goes: The dweller in Nun says to the submerged who are in (the water), to the swimmers who are in the water: See Ra who rises in his boat, the greatest of mysteries!… Oh, arise, manes!… Lift up to your heads, bathers, movement to your arms, you who float, swiftness to your legs, swimmers, breath into your nostrils, divers! Be masters of your waters, repose yourselves in your tank, walk into the Nun, move onwards in the water.[1395]
Christ in Egypt page 295
None of this demonstrates what Acharya is asserting.
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