Understanding Jesus glorify me, John 17:5
1. Introduction
John 17:5 has long been used to argue that Jesus pre-existed his earthly life. The verse reads:
“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
Many Christians claim this proves that Jesus existed with the Father before creation, possessing divine glory which he later gave up to become human. On this interpretation, Jesus is the pre-existent divine Son reclaiming the glory he once had.
Yet, when this verse is examined carefully—within its literary context, in light of the Greek text, and in harmony with the rest of Scripture—it does not require such a conclusion.
This study contends that Jesus is not recalling a literal pre-incarnate glory, but asking the Father to fulfill the glory foreordained for him in God’s eternal plan—the glory of resurrection and exaltation.
2. The Common Trinitarian Interpretation and Its Problems
The traditional view assumes Jesus gave up divine glory when he became human and now requests it “back.” But the text never says back; it does not depict the Son recovering lost divinity.
If Jesus simply wanted restored divine splendor, why refer to “before the world was” rather than to the moment before his incarnation, only some thirty-three years earlier? This makes little sense if Jesus’ intent were to describe regaining what he once literally possessed.
The Logical Inconsistency of the Two-Nature Interpretation
If, as Trinitarian theology claims, Jesus is both fully divine and fully human—one person possessing two distinct natures—then serious difficulties arise in applying that model to John 17:5.
Only the divine nature of Christ could have shared glory “with the Father before the world was.” Yet, according to orthodox teaching, the divine nature is immutable and cannot surrender divine attributes. The eternal Son could not cease to possess divine glory without ceasing to be divine.
Conversely, the human nature—which began at the incarnation—never possessed any pre-existent glory with the Father at all. Therefore, the human Jesus could not meaningfully request to receive again a glory he had never previously held.
If the divine nature never lost glory, it could not ask to regain it; and if the human nature never had it, it could not request its restoration. Thus, within the framework of the two-nature doctrine, Jesus’ prayer in John 17:5 becomes incoherent.
This internal contradiction reinforces the contextual reading: Jesus was not recalling a literal, pre-incarnate divine splendor, but asking the Father to grant him the glory that had been foreordained in God’s plan—the glory of resurrection and exaltation that the Father alone could bestow.
3. Re-examining the Greek Text
Greek:
καὶ νῦν δόξασόν με σύ, πάτερ, παρὰ σεαυτῷ τῇ δόξῃ ᾗ εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι παρὰ σοί.
Literally: “And now, glorify me, Father, with yourself, with the glory which I had with you before the world existed.”
The key phrase παρὰ σοί (“with you”) can mean in your presence or in association with you. It need not imply physical coexistence but rather possession or fellowship in divine purpose.
Thus, Jesus asks to be glorified with the Father—that is, by God’s own power and presence—not to reclaim personal divine glory. His glory was “with God” (in God’s keeping or plan), not that Jesus himself was with God in a literal pre-human state.
Just as we are “washed with the blood of Jesus” (not that the blood itself is washed), so Jesus is glorified with God—God is the source of the glorification.
4. The Meaning of “Glory” (δόξα)
In John’s Gospel, glory (doxa) consistently refers to the revelation of God’s power and honor, especially through Jesus’ suffering, resurrection, and exaltation (John 12:23; 13:31–32). This is not a reference to a metaphysical glory that Jesus supposedly relinquished before becoming human, but to the honor that God would bestow upon him through victory over death.
John explicitly connects Jesus’ glorification with the coming of the Spirit:
John 7:39 — “(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”
This indicates that Jesus had not yet been glorified during his ministry. The glorification awaited his resurrection and exaltation.
After the crucifixion, this understanding becomes clear:
Luke 24:26 — “Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?”
Christ had to suffer before entering his glory. Thus, glorification followed his death, not preceded it.
The apostles confirm the same truth:
Acts 3:13–14 — “The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you.”
Here, God is the one who glorifies Jesus after his suffering. The glorification is a divine act of vindication—the resurrection and exaltation of the Messiah.
Therefore, when Jesus prays in John 17:5, “Glorify me with the glory which I had with thee before the world was,” he is asking for the fulfillment of this promised glory: the resurrection life and honor that had been with God, foreordained in His plan from the beginning.
5. The Context of John 17:1–5
“Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee… And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (vv. 1–3)
Here Jesus distinguishes between the only true God—the Father—and himself, the one sent. This echoes Old-Testament passages identifying YHWH alone as the “true God” (2 Chr 15:3; Jer 10:10).
If Jesus were literally the one true God or a part of that divine identity, his declaration would be self-contradictory. Instead, Jesus affirms monotheism as the Jewish people already believed: “It is my Father that honoureth me, of whom ye say, that he is your God” (John 8:54).
6. The Inconsistency of the “Lost Glory” View
If the Father never ceased to possess divine glory, how could the Son’s request to regain former glory also be a means of glorifying the Father (John 17:1)? The “exchange of glory” makes sense only if both glorifications occur in history—Jesus through resurrection, the Father through Jesus’ obedience and revelation.
7. Parallels Within the Same Prayer
Later Jesus prays for future believers:
“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me… And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them.” (John 17:20–22)
Here the same “glory” is said to be already given to believers who did not yet exist. This demonstrates that “glory given” can mean “glory decreed.”
At this moment Jesus was not yet physically glorified (John 7:39), and so neither had any that would believe on him, but Jesus spoke of it as if complete—because God’s word guarantees fulfillment (Rom 4:17; Num 23:19). This is found within the same context where Jesus was asking for the Glory.
8. Conceptual vs. Literal Pre-existence
Scripture often describes God’s decrees as present realities.
Isaiah 7:14 speaks of a virgin who “is with child” (hā·rāh, present tense) even though the event was future.
Isaiah 55:11 declares that God’s word “shall not return void.”
Hebrews 4:3 affirms that “the works were finished from the foundation of the world.”
When God ordains something, it is as good as done. His plan is timeless. Jesus’ glorification existed conceptually in God’s purpose long before it occurred in history.
9. The Messiah in God’s Eternal Plan
Revelation 13:8 describes the Lamb as “slain from the foundation of the world.” Clearly, Jesus was not literally slain before creation; this speaks of divine foreordination. Acts 2:23 and Luke 22:22 confirm that his death occurred “by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God.” Likewise, 1 Peter 1:20 teaches that Christ “was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.”
This principle is not unique to the Messiah. Scripture uses the same language of foreknowledge and predestination for prophets and believers. God told Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 1:5 — “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.”
God’s statement that He “knew” and “sanctified” Jeremiah before birth does not mean Jeremiah existed physically before conception. It expresses God’s prior purpose and calling.
The same pattern applies to believers. Paul writes:
Romans 8:29–30 — “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son… Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”
Ephesians 1:5 — “Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.”
Romans 11:2 — “God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.”
Ephesians 1:11 — “In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.”
Over and over, Scripture describes God’s people as already known, sanctified, and glorified through Christ. Yet no one suggests believers literally existed before creation. Rather, their grace and salvation existed in God’s eternal purpose.
The same hermeneutic must apply to Christ. It is inconsistent to interpret believers’ foreordination as conceptual while insisting that Jesus’ foreordination implies literal pre-existence. The more coherent reading is that both the Messiah and his followers existed in God’s plan before the world began.
Paul states this clearly:
Ephesians 1:4 — “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.”
2 Timothy 1:9 — “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.”
Titus 1:2 — “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.”
Human beings did not yet exist when these things were “given” and “promised.” This language reflects God’s decree, not human or divine pre-existence.
Jesus also taught that the kingdom itself has been prepared “from the foundation of the world”:
Matthew 25:34 — “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.”
Similarly, Luke records that God “spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began” (Luke 1:70). This does not mean the prophets literally existed before the world, but that God’s redemptive message has been planned from the start.
Once we apply this consistent understanding, John 17:5 aligns perfectly: the “glory” Jesus refers to was not a pre-incarnate state but the glory purposed for him in God’s plan—the glory of resurrection and exaltation. God’s foreordained purpose is spoken of as though it already is, because what He decrees is certain to come to pass.
10. A Consistent Hermeneutic
God’s foreknowledge encompasses both the Messiah and his people.
Jesus’ request in John 17:5 thus echoes God’s eternal decree: “The Messiah will be glorified through resurrection.”
The glory was “with God” because it resided in God’s purpose from the beginning.
When the hour arrived, that purpose was fulfilled—the Son was glorified, and in him, the Father also.
11. Conclusion
When read contextually and consistently, John 17:5 does not teach the personal pre-existence of Christ.
Jesus the Messiah prays for the realization of the glory predetermined for him—the glory of resurrection and exaltation at God’s right hand.
This reading harmonizes perfectly with John 17:3, where Jesus affirms that the Father alone is “the only true God.”
The verse, far from proving Jesus’ deity, reveals the faithfulness of God’s eternal plan: what He ordained before creation inevitably comes to pass.
“Jesus asks for the glory that was with God—the glory belonging to the Messiah in God’s redemptive purpose before the world began. That glory was realized when God raised him from the dead.”
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